The Gist: Good afternoon VegNews Book Clubbers, and welcome to the second week of our discussion of Eating Animals by Jonathan Safran Foer. We started off with some great conversation, and I look forward to another great week!We read the next two sections of the book for our discussion today. The fourth section is called "Hiding/Seeking," and it follows Foer's further investigation into the animal-agriculture business, as well as some history of our relationship with animals and how factory farming came to be. It begins with him writing about his experience with a woman who secretly goes onto big factory farms, specifically poultry farms. They are sneaking onto a poultry farm in the middle of the night. Foer has decided to do this in order to truly see what factory farms are hiding, and it's obviously not good. He also depicts a letter, which is his seventh letter, to Tyson Foods asking if he could visit one of their many farms. The letter seems to indicate the secretiveness of the big factory farms. The section also includes a part entitled, "I am the last poultry farmer," which is a man named Frank Reese who talks about how family farms no longer exist, excluding his, which has turkeys that have not been genetically engineered in any way.
In the fifth section, "Influence/Speechlessness," Foer talks about the increasing risk of a pandemic, due to the rise of animal agriculture. He talks about the last terrible pandemic, the Spanish Flu, which killed nearly 100 million people worldwide within about 24 weeks. He goes on to talk about how the increase of factory farming, which has led to the genetic engineering of animals to make them merely "food" has led to the rise of antimicrobial resistance and food-borne illnesses, and how we are lied to about the danger of eating animals and the health benefits of eating a vegetarian diet.
The Discussion: Here are two discussion points to help get the conversation started. I look forward to hearing from you!
1. What are your thoughts on the "Last poultry farmer," Frank Reese? Would you be a vegan or vegetarian today if all farmers were still like him today?
2. With the threat of increasing food-borne illnesses and a chance of a terrible pandemic, why do you think so many people still live in denial about animal agriculture?
The Assignment: Please read the next section of Eating Animals for our discussion on February 14. If you still need a copy, you can purchase one at the VN Store.
~VN Book Club Hostess Lyndsay Orwig
1. What are your thoughts on the "Last poultry farmer," Frank Reese? Would you be a vegan or vegetarian today if all farmers were still like him today?
ReplyDeleteYes, because I believe animals' lives have inherent value and shouldn't be taken for such a petty reason as taste preference. It seems that Foer also reached that conclusion, because he still remains a vegetarian and doesn't just become a "happy meat" proponent like Mr. Pollan.
2. With the threat of increasing food-borne illnesses and a chance of a terrible pandemic, why do you think so many people still live in denial about animal agriculture?
Because I don't believe the vast majority of people care about anything other than the here and now. Think of how many people you know who are suffering from obesity and diet- and lifestyle- related diseases--and they still haven't changed their unhealthy ways. If the momentary pleasure of eating and drinking is more important than your own body, comfort, health, and LIFE it is of course going to be more important than animals you've never seen and barely understand. People are hardwired to seek pleasure and momentary satisfaction and that's that.
My son gave me this for XMas, it's well done from a logical thought provoking investigative approach; since I've been veg for 35 year it's nothing new for me other than increased my appreciation for all farmers who do their trade to humane & sustainable ways, I support ethical animal husbandry if only to sustain the genetic diversity and to prove that agribusiness is over-rated.
ReplyDeleteGood questions! Personally, I became a vegetarian at age 14 before I ever learned about factory farming, at a time when I probably believed all farms were like Frank Reese's. For me, the question is simple. Is it right to sacrifice another animal's life for the momentary pleasure of eating meat?
ReplyDeleteThat said, I strongly support animal welfare reforms. Frank Reese's farm is better than most, and if people insist on eating meat, they should support farmers like Mr. Reese, who allow animals to live with dignity.
As to your second question, I can understand how people block out information on pandemics. It is really too awful to think about; I can understand why people don't allow doomsday scenarios (no matter how real) to influence their behavior. I found it difficult to read this section, even knowing that I'm doing my best not to contribute to the problem, just as I find it hard to read about climate change, even though I try to do what I can on that issue.
That leads me to ask a question of my own. It's something that's bothered me since I finished these two sections. Jonathan Safran Foer says that it was the locked doors, the utter lack of transparency, that motivated him to continue researching and writing this book. My question is why -- why is the lack of transparency so disturbing? I may be skipping ahead a bit, but I get the sense that Mr. Foer feels indebted to all of the farmers and slaughterers who opened their doors to him, even where he strongly disagrees with their practices. I'm befuddled because people don't want to see what happens in agribusiness, but then they're mad if they're not allowed to see what happens. Thoughts?
I would still be vegan if every farmer were like Frank Reese. I also feel that people are in denial because they feel like they can do nothing abut it, they feel like they have to have meat and that they are entitled to eat what they want without others saying no. So they agree to turn their head and look the other way. This also is why the lack of transparency(referred to in the above comment),is so disturbing, people know, they are not stupid, but refuse for whatever reason to not look at the issue. I also think that Mr. Foer, is dealing with his own issues about eating meat and this is why he is writing it as well. People look for ways to rationalize and make right what they know deep down to be wrong. We are paying the price for it, with our health. It will take a major boycott or action by the consumer to make a difference. That is why we are lied to in education classes and not told about these things, because the industry has covered their tracks with greenbacks. Consumers need to stand up and demand the truth and refuse to accept these conditions. Unfortunately the meat industry knows that most people go along and are able to profit on that fact.
ReplyDeleteI would still be a vegan because of the health benefits. I appreciate what Frank Reese is doing
ReplyDeleteBecause most people will not give up eating turkey on Thanksgiving. He himself seems to have missed giving when all the turkeys are gone. So there is hope for him yet.
In regards to why people are in denial is because that cannot see the connection between food and their health.
There should be more studies done to show the naysayer the evidence of the connection between food and illnesses.
I've been vegetarian for 5 years now, but after reading this book last summer I really felt I couldn't blindly consume dairy and egg prouducts anymore, and that animals raised for eggs and dairy often suffer more during their lives than animals raised for meat. While I'm not strictly vegan in every aspect of life, I don't cook or bake with dairy or egg products. I encourage all vegetarians to read this book! Anyways...
ReplyDelete1. I would still be vegetarian even if all meat was "happy meat." I can't get over the fact that meat is dead animals. However, it is a small step away from factory farming, and I think everyone should be a bit happier about that. People will always eat meat (unfortunately) but at least some animals can live slightly happier lives, and farmers like Frank Reese should be respected for that.
2. I think most people just don't WANT to think about their food and what it is and where it comes from and what effects it has on their lives. A good book to read about the topic is Melanie Joy's "Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows". It really delves into why most people think of some animals as loveable creatures they would never harm (ie dogs and cats), and why some animals are seen as nothing more than bacon or a hamburger :( In terms of food safety and animal agriculture, I think people don't see the connection because it would mean they would have to consciously accept that they are eating parts of dead animal carcasses, and then they would have to second guess what they are putting in their mouths. This is unpleasant, thus no one wants to think about it. :(
1. What are your thoughts on the "Last poultry farmer," Frank Reese? Would you be a vegan or vegetarian today if all farmers were still like him today?
ReplyDeleteI would still be a vegan because I believe that no matter how an animal is grown to be food it still is slaughtered, and all life is valuable. A turkey or any animal should be allowed to live it's natural life as he or she wishes.
It seems selfish to me to have these lovely turkeys that he cares for that are all one of a kind just to die in the end for a brief moment in somebody's mouth.
Not to mention that meat and animal products are bad for the heart and body.
2. With the threat of increasing food-borne illnesses and a chance of a terrible pandemic, why do you think so many people still live in denial about animal agriculture?
Because they do not want to make a change that may include making them think about where their food comes from
Hi everyone!
ReplyDeleteGreat discussion so far, and I look forward to reading more. Also, thank you Jessica @Vegbooks for posting your own question, which I encourage everyone to do, in order to make this a real discussion. As for the question itself, I share Foer's feelings on the lack of transparency in animal agriculture. True, many people want to remain in the dark, but hypothetically, if the majority said they want to see how factory farms are run, these corporations would not let us see, which definitely goes to show something. I don't think it matters that most people don't want to know—what goes on at these farms shouldn't be kept a secret. Any other thoughts?
I'll be wrapping up our conversation on Friday!
~VegNews Book Club Hostess Lyndsay Orwig
I thought his infatuation with Reese bordered on embarrassing.
ReplyDeleteWhen he holds up the Frank Reeses as ideal models of agriculture, he gives people the impression that eating animals can be ethical.
It's a hypocritical position. You can't make an ethical case against eating animals and idolize these "happy farms" too. Gushing about Frank Reese allows people to believe that simply being "conscious" consumers is some sort of moral pinnacle.
1. Yes, I would still be vegan. This is an ethical position for me, not a phase.
2. Sock's response is accurate for me as well - people know that smoking is dangerous, yet they still smoke. Being educated doesn't seem to matter in the face of pleasure and addiction.
I was wondering if it would be possible to subscribe to this blog through email. It is much easier to keep up if I could get email notifications.
ReplyDeletePlease let me know. Thanks!
Hi Vasilisab,
ReplyDeleteThere's no where on blogger to subscribe, but you could use Google Reader (www.google.com/reader) to keep you updated. I hope this helps!
~VN Book Club Hostess Lyndsay Orwig
1. Yes, I would be a vegan even if all farmers were still like Mr. Reese. However, I doubt plant-based diets would be the focus of my animal advocacy. I'd probably be more interested in other, more obviously cruel and unecessary forms of animal exploitation like fur.
ReplyDelete2. I think that most people who live in denial about animal agriculture do so because it's convenient for them. They'd simply rather not worry about something that is such a huge problem that it seems unfixable. Like Al Gore said in Inconvenient Truth, when people learn the truth about an enormous problem, it's common for them to go straight from denial to apathy without stopping to try to fix things.
Regarding subscribing through email, I suggest the blog authors use Feedburner.